Vinyl Mastering - Revision history

85.211.226.105: /* Vinyl mastering online */

2016-05-20T18:07:05Z

Vinyl mastering online

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:07, 20 May 2016
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	https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes		https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes

			Guideline of do's and don't for vinyl audio mastering

			http://www.discwizards.com/Vinyl/Audio-Mastering-and-Mixing-Tips--for-Vinyl-Lacquer-Cutting-and-Pressing.htm

Marek1000 at 13:17, 31 May 2015

2015-05-31T13:17:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:17, 31 May 2015
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	=Vinyl mastering online=		=Vinyl mastering online=
	Here is the list of services where you can make online masterig for vinyl:		Here is the list of services where you can make online masterig for vinyl:
	# https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes
			https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes

Marek1000 at 13:16, 31 May 2015

2015-05-31T13:16:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:16, 31 May 2015
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	=Vinyl mastering online=		=Vinyl mastering online=
	Here is the list of services where you can make online masterig for vinyl:		Here is the list of services where you can make online masterig for vinyl:
	https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes		# https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes

Marek1000 at 13:15, 31 May 2015

2015-05-31T13:15:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:15, 31 May 2015
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	* Shellac: ''Excellent Italian Greyhound'' (and probably all others)		* Shellac: ''Excellent Italian Greyhound'' (and probably all others)
	* Of Montreal, ''Hissing Fauna: Are You The Destroyer?''		* Of Montreal, ''Hissing Fauna: Are You The Destroyer?''

			=Vinyl mastering online=
			Here is the list of services where you can make online masterig for vinyl:
			https://vinyl-pressing-plants.com/all-vinyl-pressing-plants-list/options/Vinyl-mastering/Yes

Bix at 17:20, 7 September 2010

2010-09-07T17:20:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:20, 7 September 2010
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	** Clips, but at a different (lower) level than the CD (!)		** Clips, but at a different (lower) level than the CD (!)
	* Slayer, ''Christ Illusion''		* Slayer, ''Christ Illusion''
	* Depeche Mode: All new releases since 1997.		* Depeche Mode, All new releases since 1997.

	=Vinyl releases suspected of being the same master as the CD=		=Vinyl releases suspected of being the same master as the CD=

Bix: Whoops, fixed.

2010-08-26T19:19:15Z

Whoops, fixed.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:19, 26 August 2010
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	** Clips, but at a different (lower) level than the CD (!)		** Clips, but at a different (lower) level than the CD (!)
	* Slayer, ''Christ Illusion''		* Slayer, ''Christ Illusion''
			* Depeche Mode: All new releases since 1997.

	=Vinyl releases suspected of being the same master as the CD=		=Vinyl releases suspected of being the same master as the CD=
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	* Shellac: ''Excellent Italian Greyhound'' (and probably all others)		* Shellac: ''Excellent Italian Greyhound'' (and probably all others)
	* Of Montreal, ''Hissing Fauna: Are You The Destroyer?''		* Of Montreal, ''Hissing Fauna: Are You The Destroyer?''
	* Depeche Mode: All new releases since 1997.

Bix: /* Vinyl releases suspected of being the same master as the CD */

2010-08-26T19:18:42Z

Vinyl releases suspected of being the same master as the CD

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:18, 26 August 2010
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	* Shellac: ''Excellent Italian Greyhound'' (and probably all others)		* Shellac: ''Excellent Italian Greyhound'' (and probably all others)
	* Of Montreal, ''Hissing Fauna: Are You The Destroyer?''		* Of Montreal, ''Hissing Fauna: Are You The Destroyer?''
			* Depeche Mode: All new releases since 1997.

Mjb: /* Does vinyl intrinsically require a superior master than CD? */ I think the word channel was meant here, not frequency

2010-06-23T16:59:52Z

Does vinyl intrinsically require a superior master than CD?: I think the word channel was meant here, not frequency

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:59, 23 June 2010
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	* If the groove "moves" quickly enough - its velocity is high enough - some turntable cartridges will be unable to track the groove, and a skip results.		* If the groove "moves" quickly enough - its velocity is high enough - some turntable cartridges will be unable to track the groove, and a skip results.
	* Just like the voice coils in a speaker can burn up if enough energy is dumped into them, the voice coils on a cutter head can burn up if the signal is of a high enough power. (The amplifiers range into the hundreds of watts and the coils themselves are liquid- or helium-cooled, depending on who you ask, so the powers involved here really are quite substantial.) The historical solution to this is a special limiterthat squashes the high frequencies in the music if the cutting head temperature exceeded some threshold. Clearly not a high-fidelity solution (and many mastering engineers do not use them nowadays).		* Just like the voice coils in a speaker can burn up if enough energy is dumped into them, the voice coils on a cutter head can burn up if the signal is of a high enough power. (The amplifiers range into the hundreds of watts and the coils themselves are liquid- or helium-cooled, depending on who you ask, so the powers involved here really are quite substantial.) The historical solution to this is a special limiterthat squashes the high frequencies in the music if the cutting head temperature exceeded some threshold. Clearly not a high-fidelity solution (and many mastering engineers do not use them nowadays).
	* Excessive stereo bass content (bass in one ~~frequency~~ or another) can compromise tracking or even make the cutting head jump out of the groove. This is sometimes solved with an elliptical filter, which sums bass frequencies to mono. Again, not all mastering engineers use this.		* Excessive stereo bass content (bass in one channel or another) can compromise tracking or even make the cutting head jump out of the groove. This is sometimes solved with an elliptical filter, which sums bass frequencies to mono. Again, not all mastering engineers use this.

	None of these restrictions explicitly say "hypercompressed, distorting music cannot be cut onto vinyl". Rather, that music may be more difficult to cut and play back than other music.		None of these restrictions explicitly say "hypercompressed, distorting music cannot be cut onto vinyl". Rather, that music may be more difficult to cut and play back than other music.

Axon: /* Some known counterexamples: Vinyl releases with the same master as the CD */

2010-06-22T01:09:14Z

Some known counterexamples: Vinyl releases with the same master as the CD

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	Steve Hoffman's work is ''generally'' known for distinctly different masterings compared to equivalent CD releases. His mastering of ZZ Top's ''Tres Hombres'' includes diverse changes, including a much less compressed drum track. His mastering of the White Stripes's ''Icky Thump'' is also well praised for being distinctly different (and better) than the CD release.		Steve Hoffman's work is ''generally'' known for distinctly different masterings compared to equivalent CD releases. His mastering of ZZ Top's ''Tres Hombres'' includes diverse changes, including a much less compressed drum track. His mastering of the White Stripes's ''Icky Thump'' is also well praised for being distinctly different (and better) than the CD release.

	=Some known counterexamples: Vinyl releases with ~~the~~ same master as ~~the~~ CD=		=Some known counterexamples: Vinyl releases with same/similar hypercompressed master as on CD=
	~~Generally~~, ~~these situations seem to occur because~~ the ~~mixes themselves are~~ clipped ~~before mastering is done. '''Mixing engineers: Mastering is not supposed~~ to ~~"fix" your bad mixes~~. ~~Avoid clipping~~.~~'''~~		This is a list of vinyl/CD releases, where the CD release has been considered compressed or clipped for a popular music audience, and the vinyl master has been proven to be sourced from digital audio equal in compression/clipping content to that of the CD master. This list excludes albums whose CD releases are considered relatively uncompressed or unclipped.

	* [http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1706712-post20.html Foo Fighters, ''In Your Honor'' 45rpm 4LP. Steve Berson, Total Sonic Mastering] ~~(emphasis~~ added):		It does '''not''' mean the CD master necessarily sounds poor - some CDs referenced here have been highly commended for their sound quality - but it ''does'' mean that, for any of these records, if one considers the CD to be 'hypercompressed', one ought to also consider the LP to be hypercompressed as well, so preferring LP over CD for that reason would be foolish.

			* [http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1706712-post20.html Foo Fighters, ''In Your Honor'' 45rpm 4LP. Steve Berson, Total Sonic Mastering]: Sourced from 24/96 digital masters, which differ from CD masters only in choice of output format. Hypercompression/clipping which existed on CD also existed on LP master. Emphasis added:
	<blockquote><p>When I cut the vinyl DMM masters for the first "special edition" release of the 45rpm 4-LP set for the Foo Fighters "In Your Honor" album the producers made a big deal out of wanting to have an "audiophile" release and made sure that I could work from 24bit/96kHz source (which I was able to do at Europadisk due to SAWStudio sending to a matched pair of Lavry Blues that went to both the pitch depth computer and the cutting head) and that I did as close to a flat transfer from these as possible.</p>		<blockquote><p>When I cut the vinyl DMM masters for the first "special edition" release of the 45rpm 4-LP set for the Foo Fighters "In Your Honor" album the producers made a big deal out of wanting to have an "audiophile" release and made sure that I could work from 24bit/96kHz source (which I was able to do at Europadisk due to SAWStudio sending to a matched pair of Lavry Blues that went to both the pitch depth computer and the cutting head) and that I did as close to a flat transfer from these as possible.</p>
	<p>'''I was disappointed to find that the high res files I received ... had been heavily clipped as they were the same files (just prior to SRC and dithering) that the CD master was made from.''' </p></blockquote>		<p>'''I was disappointed to find that the high res files I received ... had been heavily clipped as they were the same files (just prior to SRC and dithering) that the CD master was made from.''' </p></blockquote>

Axon: Completion of Down on the Upside quotes, switch all quotes to
, added emphasis

2010-06-22T00:12:40Z

Completion of Down on the Upside quotes, switch all quotes to <blockquote>, added emphasis

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	Generally, these situations seem to occur because the mixes themselves are clipped before mastering is done. '''Mixing engineers: Mastering is not supposed to "fix" your bad mixes. Avoid clipping.'''		Generally, these situations seem to occur because the mixes themselves are clipped before mastering is done. '''Mixing engineers: Mastering is not supposed to "fix" your bad mixes. Avoid clipping.'''

	* Foo Fighters, ''In Your Honor'' 45rpm 4LP. Steve Berson, Total Sonic Mastering: "When I cut the vinyl DMM masters for the first "special edition" release of the 45rpm 4-LP set for the Foo Fighters "In Your Honor" album the producers made a big deal out of wanting to have an "audiophile" release and made sure that I could work from 24bit/96kHz source (which I was able to do at Europadisk due to SAWStudio sending to a matched pair of Lavry Blues that went to both the pitch depth computer and the cutting head) and that I did as close to a flat transfer from these as possible. '''I was disappointed to find that the high res files I received ... had been heavily clipped as they were the same files (just prior to SRC and dithering) that the CD master was made from. ~~" http:~~//~~www.gearslutz.com/board/1706712-post20.html~~		* [http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1706712-post20.html Foo Fighters, ''In Your Honor'' 45rpm 4LP. Steve Berson, Total Sonic Mastering] (emphasis added):
	* Metallica, ''Death Magnetic''. [http://audiamorous.blogspot.com/2008/09/metallicas-death-magnetic-clips-on-both.html Visually confirmed], and [http://www.metallicabb.com/index.php?showtopic=85317&st=0 strongly hinted at] by Ted Jensen, who mentions that the mixes were clipped: "In this case the mixes were already brick walled before they arrived at my place. Suffice it to say I would never be pushed to overdrive things as far as they are here. Believe me I’m not proud to be associated with this one...~~" No word from vinyl mastering engineer Kevin Gray. As the mix itself was clipped, it is highly anticipated that the vinyl release is of the same master as the CD.~~		<blockquote><p>When I cut the vinyl DMM masters for the first "special edition" release of the 45rpm 4-LP set for the Foo Fighters "In Your Honor" album the producers made a big deal out of wanting to have an "audiophile" release and made sure that I could work from 24bit/96kHz source (which I was able to do at Europadisk due to SAWStudio sending to a matched pair of Lavry Blues that went to both the pitch depth computer and the cutting head) and that I did as close to a flat transfer from these as possible.</p>
	* Soundgarden "Down on the Upside", as admitted at http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/502795-soundgardens-down-upside-vinyl.html. At least one other record mastered by Collins is also implied as being sourced from CD masters. Two things are worth pointing out:		<p>'''I was disappointed to find that the high res files I received ... had been heavily clipped as they were the same files (just prior to SRC and dithering) that the CD master was made from.''' </p></blockquote>
	# ~~Collins~~ was specifically commended for the sound quality of the vinyl release before he pointed out that it was sourced from CD.		* Metallica, ''Death Magnetic''. [http://audiamorous.blogspot.com/2008/09/metallicas-death-magnetic-clips-on-both.html Visually confirmed], and [http://www.metallicabb.com/index.php?showtopic=85317&st=0 strongly hinted at] by Ted Jensen, who mentions that the mixes were clipped. No word from vinyl mastering engineer Kevin Gray. As the mix itself was clipped, it is highly anticipated that the vinyl release is of the same master as the CD. Jensen:
	# ~~Collins~~ claims that a Stereophile reviewer once commended him in the same way about a separate record, and refused to believe that the vinyl was in fact sourced from 16/44.		<blockquote>In this case the mixes were already brick walled before they arrived at my place. Suffice it to say I would never be pushed to overdrive things as far as they are here. Believe me I’m not proud to be associated with this one...</blockquote>
			* Soundgarden "Down on the Upside", as admitted at http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/502795-soundgardens-down-upside-vinyl.html. At least one other record mastered by Collins is also implied as being sourced from CD masters. Two things about Collins's work are worth pointing out:
			# He was [http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5507275-post1.html specifically commended] for the sound quality of the vinyl release before he pointed out that it was sourced from CD.
			# He [http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5511973-post15.html claims] that a Stereophile reviewer once commended him in the same way about a separate record, and refused to believe that the vinyl was in fact sourced from 16/44. (emphasis added)
			<blockquote>I once had a reviewer from Stereophile call and was raving, raving I tell you, about the sound of an LP done the same way: I sent my eq'd CD master and someone else cut the lacquer. <br/>
			"''The depth, the detail, the microdynamics are beyond compare, it's just more proof of the superiority of analog.''" <br/>
			"But it was cut from a 16 bit digtial source." <br/>
			"''Impossible''." <br/>
			"I was at the session." <br/>
			"''Don't you tell me what I'm hearing!''" <br/>
			"Uh, I gotta get back to work......."</blockquote>
			* Pete Lyman, Infrasonic Sound, [http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5512418-post17.html same "Down on the Upside" thread as above], comments on how CD sources form the majority of his business in cutting records, and points out that 16-bit digital delay lines have been used since the 80s, and quite possibly for most records released since then (emphasis added):
			<blockquote>'''I cut about 10 sides a week, most of them from a 16/44.1 source.''' If the source material sounds good and doesn't have excessive high end issues or phase issues, it should sound fine, if not better. '''I doubt most people could tell the difference between the same material cut at 16 bit and 24 bit. Most records (at lease since DAT/digital surpassed analog mixdown options)have gone thru some conversion during the cutting. I think it would shock quite a few people to know that those "analog" records they love so much probably passed thru a 16 bit digital delay line on their way to the cutting head.''' But, quite a few of us are opting to bypass that sort of delay and do it in the workstation thru a second set of converters, eliminating a stage of conversion.</blockquote>

	=Vinyl releases suspected of being of different masters than the CD=		=Vinyl releases suspected of being of different masters than the CD=