Pre echo - Revision history

https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Pre_echo Pre echo - Revision history 2026-05-02T03:01:30Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.44.2 https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=13612&oldid=prev Pepoluan at 20:36, 15 September 2006 2006-09-15T20:36:06Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 20:36, 15 September 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l12">Line 12:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 12:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Digital </del>Signal Processing]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:Signal Processing]]</div></td></tr> </table>

Pepoluan https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=12858&oldid=prev HotshotGG: /* Additional reading: */ 2006-09-02T21:31:09Z

<p><span class="autocomment">Additional reading:</span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:31, 2 September 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l3">Line 3:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 3:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice ''(including deploying DCT-IV transform with overlap and add)''. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a Wavelet Transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice ''(including deploying DCT-IV transform with overlap and add)''. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a Wavelet Transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Additional reading:</del>==</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">References</ins>==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case, but very similiar.'' </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case, but very similiar.'' </div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l12">Line 12:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 12:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Technical</del>]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Category:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Digital Signal Processing</ins>]]</div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=12775&oldid=prev Pepoluan at 08:01, 2 September 2006 2006-09-02T08:01:38Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 08:01, 2 September 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l10">Line 10:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 10:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.jhu.edu/~signals/fourier2/ - With this java applet you can draw a sharp attack, and use it to calculate a large number of coefficients. Once you start to reduce the number of coefficients you will see the pre-echo appear. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.jhu.edu/~signals/fourier2/ - With this java applet you can draw a sharp attack, and use it to calculate a large number of coefficients. Once you start to reduce the number of coefficients you will see the pre-echo appear. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.gac.edu/~huber/fourier - This java applet let's you approximate the series and listen to the noise created.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.gac.edu/~huber/fourier - This java applet let's you approximate the series and listen to the noise created.</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Category:Technical]]</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Pepoluan https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9882&oldid=prev HotshotGG at 21:07, 14 January 2006 2006-01-14T21:07:38Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:07, 14 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a Gibbs Phenomenon that occurs in Fluid Dynamics, which can be seen any time you use a Fourier Series expansion to represent non-smooth data. When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack. A Fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] model. The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. During some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a Gibbs Phenomenon that occurs in Fluid Dynamics, which can be seen any time you use a Fourier Series expansion to represent non-smooth data. When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack. A Fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] model. The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. During some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">wavelet transform</del>. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''(including deploying DCT-IV transform with overlap and add)''</ins>. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Wavelet Transform</ins>. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Additional reading:==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Additional reading:==</div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9880&oldid=prev HotshotGG at 21:04, 14 January 2006 2006-01-14T21:04:58Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:04, 14 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a Gibbs Phenomenon that occurs in Fluid Dynamics, which can be seen any time you use a Fourier Series expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a Gibbs Phenomenon that occurs in Fluid Dynamics, which can be seen any time you use a Fourier Series expansion to represent non-smooth data. When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack. A Fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] model. The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">During </ins>some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack. A Fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] model. The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">At </del>some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a wavelet transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a wavelet transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9879&oldid=prev HotshotGG at 21:04, 14 January 2006 2006-01-14T21:04:01Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:04, 14 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a Gibbs Phenomenon that occurs in Fluid Dynamics, which can be seen any time you use a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">fourier-type series </del>expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a Gibbs Phenomenon that occurs in Fluid Dynamics, which can be seen any time you use a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Fourier Series </ins>expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack. A <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Fourier </ins>representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] model. The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. At some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">fourier </del>representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] model.</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. At some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a wavelet transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a wavelet transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l11">Line 11:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 7:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Additional reading:==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Additional reading:==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case, but very similiar'' </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case, but very similiar<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins>'' </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.math.drexel.edu/~pg/fb//java/la_applets/Gibbs/ - This is java applet of a visual representation of Gibbs Phenomenon were you can change the amount of terms used to approximate the function. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.math.drexel.edu/~pg/fb//java/la_applets/Gibbs/ - This is java applet of a visual representation of Gibbs Phenomenon were you can change the amount of terms used to approximate the function. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.jhu.edu/~signals/fourier2/ - With this java applet you can draw a sharp attack, and use it to calculate a large number of coefficients. Once you start to reduce the number of coefficients you will see the pre-echo appear. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.jhu.edu/~signals/fourier2/ - With this java applet you can draw a sharp attack, and use it to calculate a large number of coefficients. Once you start to reduce the number of coefficients you will see the pre-echo appear. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.gac.edu/~huber/fourier - This java applet let's you approximate the series and listen to the noise created.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.gac.edu/~huber/fourier - This java applet let's you approximate the series and listen to the noise created.</div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9878&oldid=prev HotshotGG: /* Additional reading: */ 2006-01-14T21:01:58Z

<p><span class="autocomment">Additional reading:</span></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:01, 14 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l11">Line 11:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 11:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Additional reading:==</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Additional reading:==</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</del>'' </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, but very similiar</ins>'' </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.math.drexel.edu/~pg/fb//java/la_applets/Gibbs/ - This is java applet of a visual representation of Gibbs Phenomenon were you can change the amount of terms used to approximate the function. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.math.drexel.edu/~pg/fb//java/la_applets/Gibbs/ - This is java applet of a visual representation of Gibbs Phenomenon were you can change the amount of terms used to approximate the function. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.jhu.edu/~signals/fourier2/ - With this java applet you can draw a sharp attack, and use it to calculate a large number of coefficients. Once you start to reduce the number of coefficients you will see the pre-echo appear. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.jhu.edu/~signals/fourier2/ - With this java applet you can draw a sharp attack, and use it to calculate a large number of coefficients. Once you start to reduce the number of coefficients you will see the pre-echo appear. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.gac.edu/~huber/fourier - This java applet let's you approximate the series and listen to the noise created.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* http://www.gac.edu/~huber/fourier - This java applet let's you approximate the series and listen to the noise created.</div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9877&oldid=prev HotshotGG at 21:00, 14 January 2006 2006-01-14T21:00:09Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:00, 14 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gibbs oscillation </del>that occurs in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Physics</del>, which can be seen any time you use a fourier-type series expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Gibbs Phenomenon </ins>that occurs in <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Fluid Dynamics</ins>, which can be seen any time you use a fourier-type series expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l9">Line 9:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 9:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a wavelet transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The oscillations in front of the attack are very bad, since they will be heard "before" the attack and tend to be very obvious to the human ear. Often times it sounds like a ''snare'' has been added to the original track. The simplest way to lessen this is by using pre/post-masking in the psychoacoustics model. This isn't always effective solution and better ones are utilized in practice. One method of dealing with discontinous functions of Fourier Series that converge very badly and create Gibbs Oscillations is to use different basis functions, such as those in a wavelet transform. Once this is done the Gibbs Phenomenon dissappears entirely. </div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>=Additional reading:=</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=</ins>=Additional reading:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=</ins>=</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case.'' </div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Note: MDCT behavior is not identical in either case.'' </div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9876&oldid=prev HotshotGG at 20:56, 14 January 2006 2006-01-14T20:56:57Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 20:56, 14 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l3">Line 3:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 3:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 (like a castanet)]'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[codec]]</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">model</ins>.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. At some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The problem is that you have to return nearly all [[MDCT]] coefficients of the attack to stop the pre/post-echo. The largest ones are no problem as they are usually kept by the [[quantization]], but all others look very similar just a tiny bit smaller. At some point, you must make the decision to round to zero (or end up with 1:4 "compression") and you introduce the oscillation.</div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Pre_echo&diff=9648&oldid=prev HotshotGG at 22:33, 2 January 2006 2006-01-02T22:33:16Z

<p></p> <table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 22:33, 2 January 2006</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a gibbs oscillation that occurs in Physics, which can be seen any time you use a fourier-type series expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''Pre-echo''' is just classical case of a gibbs oscillation that occurs in Physics, which can be seen any time you use a fourier-type series expansion to represent non-smooth data.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''(like a castanet)'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>When one has something, similiar to a sharp attack ''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[http://www.ff123.net/training/castanets_xing128.mp3 </ins>(like a castanet)<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">]</ins>'', the [[MDCT]] representation of this data will (after [[quantization]]) create a lot of extra oscillations both before and after the attack.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></td></tr> <tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] [[codec]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>A fourier representation of an attack consists of an ''(inifinitely)'' long series of slowly decaying coefficients. If you store any less then exact, you introduce extra oscillations. You are forced to [[quantize]], however otherwise you don't have a [[lossy]] [[codec]].</div></td></tr> </table>

HotshotGG